Trading barbs

By Darryl K. Taft  |  Posted 2004-10-29 Print this article Print

But a more serious Box said: "Im much more interested in functional languages than dynamic languages. The brevity of having the compiler do more of the work is a good thing."

Regarding the object-relational mapping issue, Hejlsberg said, "This is one of my pet peeves – the enormous impedance mismatch between databases and enterprise programming languages. Im amazed at how much progress we can make by integrating the two worlds and O/R [object-relational] mappings are the first stop along that path… Im spending a large portion of my time trying to figure out how to solve these problems."

Microsoft is at work on an object-relational mapping technology effort known as ObjectSpaces that was slated to be delivered with the upcoming Longhorn operating system.

Meanwhile, Box took a swipe at the Java camp. "I marvel at how many O/R layers there are on the Java side," he said. "The thing that scares me about a lot of their O/R approaches is its basically going back to the early 90s model… I hope the Java community keeps putting more troops into the Vietnam that is O/R."

Click here to read what companies like IBM and Oracle have done to produce products that are fully compatible with J2EE 1.4. In addition, Box said, "This O/R thing has been a distraction. The real problem people are struggling with is dealing with concurrency."

Regarding versioning, Hejlsberg acknowledged the difficulty of versioning, and then said, "One of the big differences here between Java and .Net is the complete separation we have between logical and physical naming. This is one area where Java can learn a whole lot from .Net." Though he added: "We dont claim to have all the answers."

The discussion on Web services security sparked a bit of a challenge. High, in essence called Microsoft out to come forward and support the submission of Web services security specifications to "open standards bodies."

Box said in terms of the core wire-level format "there isnt a lot of contention in the industry" around security. But High said at the level of the various Web services security specifications IBM and Microsoft have teamed on, its not good enough for just IBM and Microsoft to get together, but for us to take it to an open forum…"

Box did not rise to the bait. After Crupi joked about Sun now being a "very good partner with Microsoft," IBMs High cracked that "its amazing what $2 billion will buy," in reference to the Microsoft-Sun Java settlement earlier this year. Box laughed and said, "Wow, can we buy you guys off for $2 billion?"

(Editors Note: This story was updated to reflect an off-microphone quip made by IBMs High, in reference to the Microsoft-Sun Java settlement.) Check out eWEEK.coms Developer & Web Services Center at for the latest news, reviews and analysis in programming environments and developer tools.

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Darryl K. Taft covers the development tools and developer-related issues beat from his office in Baltimore. He has more than 10 years of experience in the business and is always looking for the next scoop. Taft is a member of the Association for Computing Machinery (ACM) and was named 'one of the most active middleware reporters in the world' by The Middleware Co. He also has his own card in the 'Who's Who in Enterprise Java' deck.

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